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Post by Aotrs Commander on Sept 26, 2016 13:55:28 GMT -4
Seeing there wasn't a specific thread for general discussion, I figured, having come all the way here, I may as well start one to chronicle my thoughts as I work through the BW series, for mild amusement. (With the occasional dip and gushing about XY, which is fracking amazing.)
I have just finished watching the first season (Best Wishes). That... was not nearly as bad as I was expecting. After a dodgy start (Ash and Pikachu apparently having decided to spend the trip between Sinnoh and Unova repeatedly smacking their heads against the wall), it picked up in the main.
Bad points: Ash's (especially early on) sudden bout of incompetance and Pikachu's sudden lack of ability. (XY, by contrast not only made them both look highly competant, but has Ash still be knowingly and confidently ignorant off the battlefield, bless his cotton socks - but with no malice or annoyance behind it; iot's like he suddenly knows he's a bit of a dimwit and he's okay with it.)
The rivals. Trip is not fit to lick either Gary or Paul's boots and is by far the dullest, smuggest and least interesting of the bunch. At least they had the delightful unexpected change to have him have his arse handed to him by Cilan in the Club Tornament.
Bianca is... Just annoying. Normally, I have no problems with that sort of thing (I rather like Pinkie Pie from MLP) and I didn;t mind her in the games, but Bianca is just... No. Especially in the Club Tornament arc, I really wishes someone woudl snap at her and go "for frack's sake, women, leave Zoroa alone, sit down and shut up! Act your age!" Even Barry was better than this.
The other two lasses are just barely tolerable, and onyl because they are so clearly insane.
Out of all of them Stephan is the only one who seems reasonable (and ironically, he was the one I was most familair with from the odd episodes I caught and I wasn't very impressed with him then.)
But compared to Zoe (as great ally) and Paul (as nemasis), it's weak sauce.
BW is also not nearly as good as DP and typing issues with regard to moves. Shadowball is a Ghost move, people...
Team Rocket: I never thought I'd say it, but I miss incompetant Team Rocket. Competant Team Rocket is boring and it just don't feel right not seeing them get their comuppance at the end of each episode.
Good: The Pokémon characterisation. Oshawott, Snivy and Emolga in particular are amazing and we should totally see more of them. It is glorious.
Ash does actually show some maturity in places and occasionally shows he has learned from the past - in contrast to other times, where they play his idiocy up.
There have been some very definite A grade episodes - Purrloin Sneaky or Sweet being a prime example, but - despite what I said about Team Rocket above - that whole arc with him wih the twerps was really fun. The two-parter climax was good as well, and for once I don't mind Team Rocket and how things turned out.
So, on to BW season two and let's see if this stays the same, gets better or worse!
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Post by Aotrs Commander on Sept 28, 2016 14:53:06 GMT -4
First dozen episodes of Rival Destinies...
1) Enter Elesa, Electrifying Gym Leader! Haha, Bianka sucks!
2) Dazzling the Nimbasa Gym! Ash apparently spent the time between season huffing paint and repeatedly banging his head against the wall in order to kill his brains cells, and is only healed by a direct hit from a thunderbolt.
3) Lost at the Stamp Rally! I liked the way that Ash and co immediately and without question stop whatever they are doing to help people. Ash in particular; a contrast to early season one Ash who a) never would have gone off to spend a day paling around with Irsis (actually, late season one Ash probably wouldn't) and b) would have maoned like anything at the delay to the gym. Despite the obvious falls he's taking in these gym battles and against Trip, it's in these sorts of moments where I think he shows the maturity I'd expect.
4) Ash Versus the Champion! Haha, Alder is such a dick!
5+6) A Maractus Musical! The Four Seasons of Sawsbuck! Typical filler episodes, nothing particularly of note...
7) Scraggy and the Demanding Gothita! Snivy is the Bestest.
8) The Lonely Deino! Again, I liked this one because of the way the twerps comported themselves. Iris and Ash in particualr. Her for basically spending, like, apparently two days just sitting with a Pokémon and Ash for the moment she told them to go on without her ans he was like "no worries, I'll wait, thuis is more important." Runner-up prize for actuall voicing the query as to why the trainer didn't call to let them know he was late and having a fair reason for it.
9) The Mighty Accelguard to the Rescue! This episode was hilarious. And wow, there are A LOT of costumed super-heroes around. (I aslo wonder, from the way the market folk treat Charles if his secret identity is basically an open secret among Driftvale...
10) A Call for Brotherly Love! Cilan's brother is an idiot and sadly did not get the for-once earned full-on "just a little kid" from Iris. Because wow.
11+12) Stopping the Rage of Legends! Eeeeh... I dunno. This just... Felt like it was missing something. I can see the rationale behind Lewis keeping his very last Revival Herb for absolute emergancies (like the three doses they used), rather than using them on the Pokémon (since he would have been correct in assuming it would probably not have cured the malise, safe for erpahps a last-minute reprise when they got REALLY ill), so I don't hold that against it, but... Yeah. I dunno. It didn't have the sort of impact these two-parters usually have.
So, a couple of good episodes of good character moments, one grand old silly over-the-top idiocy, two middle-of-the-road filler with the "plot" episodes being something of the weaker points. Rival Destinies is still not terrible or anything yet.
Three filler episodes of XY later...
Kindergarten Chaos! I felt the lack of guide for this one keenly, especially with that start... Ash just seems to have that affect on ladies as he gets on! Again, though, I think his (own particular brand of) maturity shone here; dude's actually quite good with kids (though he's done this sort of thing often enough).
(And yet the series still has his cheerful and now seemingly self-awareness dense moments, like that wonderful explanation of evolution in one of the prior episodes "it's when a Pokémon shines with a white light and everyone is like, 'wow, that's amazing' and that's basically it!" I love this series.)
Seeking Shelter From the Storm! Considering his last run in or two with haunted houses (which is like, another semi-regular thing) and actually ghosts (as opposed to ghost-type Pokémon), at least one of which had him nearly sucked into hell, Ash - and Team Rocket's, for that matter - apprehension is not unwarrented. After al, eve if it IS a physic of ghost type, it doesn't mean it won;t up and out try and murder everyone...
An Appetite for Battle! Probably the most moderate of the XY episodes so far. Chespin is a greedy idiot and Clemont jumps to conclusions. (And Ash forgets he has Fletchling, poor bugger... Though as least its doing better than poot Tranquil...)
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Post by Aotrs Commander on Oct 1, 2016 16:29:23 GMT -4
Next load of episodes, taking us a sort of natural break kinda. Ish...
Battling the King of the Mines! Clay is a dick.
Crisis At Chargestone Cave! Meh.
Evolution Exchange Excitement! Bianca is terrible at being a trainer.
Explorers of the Hero's Ruin! Juniper's father is a dick.
Battling the Bully! Glenn is a dick. Also, credit for a one-and-a-half season arc with Krokarok...
Baffling the Bouffalant! Snivy is the best, even when in a silly wgi, though Emolga ain't far behind.
Cilan Takes Flight! Skyla... Skyla may be the worst gym leader I think I've seen. I have rarely wanted to slap a character so hard (no, not in that way, gentle dodgers - dammi,t you;ve got me at it now! Wasn't Dawn/Zoe/Candice enough!) She goes beyond mere dickery. (And ye gods. I have a complete fashion blindspot - more even than traditional... I just don't grok clothes... But even I am looking at her outfit and wondering what the frack she was thinking.) 'Course, were I Cilan, I wouldn't have challenged her to a battle, I'd have called up the Gym Inspectors (remember then, from season one) and made an official complaint to the Unova League, to her her stupidly-clad ass fired, because fuck Skyla.
An Amazing Aerial Battle! Damn fucking straight she got the asskicking she deserved.
Climbing the Tower of Success! StePHAN not STEFan, ye gods, people, give the poor chap a break; he's a pretty good stick. Surprisingly, from my first impressions,
The Clubsplosion Begins! Speaking of, this arc I saw a couple of the episodes of on TV(second and forth), which I didn't think all that much of. Surprisingly, in context, it's actually better. Still, I feel the lack of Contests in this region. In DP especially, they added a nice change of pace.
Search for the Clubultimate! Paha! Burgandy lost to Iris!
A Clubsplosion of Excitement! Pahahahahahahahaha! Trip losty to Bianca! Bianca! Trip, you are the very worst.
Commanding The Clubsplosion Crown! In context, this episode was much better. Not sure how much use all the vitamins will be, though Stephan, pretty sure you don't want to dilute your EVs...
Battling the Leaf Thieves! Because Ash just has to be the bait, don't he...
A Restoration Confrontation! Part 1 & Part 2 Eeeeh. Lie the last two-parter, I didn't really feel this one. Unlike the finale to last season, again, this pair of episodes just... Doesn't seem to do much. It feels like a generic filler episode spun ot two double length.
Evolution By Fire! Snivy is the absolute fucking BEST. Seriously.
I am absolutely going to redouble my efforts to breed me up a kick-ass female Snivy for Sun/Moon usage, even if it takes for-freakin'-ever. (Esepcially since Serperior's... Dismal stat made it the first starter ever I didn't use on one of my teams.)
Guarding the Guardian of the Mountain! Brycen is... NOT a dick! Well, that makes for a change of pace. Oh, the Bruce Lee references...! That will have gone over the heads of most of the target audience.
Caution: Icy Battle Conditions! Ash being Ash Motherfucking Ketchum again. Finally.
Clash of the Connoisseurs! Burgandy, you suck (but at least you suck while being sorta funny, unlike, say I dunno, Trip).
Crisis at Ferroseed Research! Another one I think I saw before... But otherwise generic filler episode. Think I'm starting to see why I had a low opinion of BW, apparently I just caught all the not very good episodes.
An Epic Defense Force! This episode was Very Silly. And Iris is... not good at acting. Cilan, on the other hand... As someone who actually DOES play the villain in panto (with a long 20-year history), I approve. ('course in my case, I don't have to actually act when I'm being Evil...)
Rocking the Virbank Gym! Roxy is... Also not a dick! Wow, that's two, Unova gym leaders, maybe there's hope for you yet. This was defintely more like it, a decent gym battle, and for once a twist. I mean, actually, the whole Roxy-as-gym-8 was sort of out of what in the heck, since I was expecting Iris (or the other guy) and Roxy's, like, gym two, three, in BW2?) But the 3v6 was a nice change of pace to mix up the problem that with three on three (or, well, actually any number), there's only a certain number of ways each match will pan out. Nice.
Again, a pretty fair number of good episodes, with the plot-ish episodes being the weak ones along with episodes that made more sense in context. Apparently, I just caught a load of the sub-par ones; I always give a series a few chances, but with BW, it seems I nearly unerringly got the duff gubbins every time.
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Post by SeriousJupiter on Oct 5, 2016 12:33:25 GMT -4
I agree with so many things you said. You totally get everything that's wrong with BW. Like you, I also think that Stephan was the only decent rival and Brycen was the only good Gym Leader. Well, to be more precise, his Gym Battle against Ash was just about the only good Unova Gym Battle. I think Elesa was a pretty good character. Her battle against Ash was a fucking joke, but that wasn't her fault. I also agree that Roxie wasn't a bitch, but in my opinion, she was rather arrogant when she allowed Ash to use his full team against only three of her Pokémon. It showed how much she thinks of her challengers.
I'm looking forward to reading the rest of your thoughts about BW. I'm especially eager to hear what you think of the Pokémon World Tournament Junior Cup. The first two Club Battle Tournaments weren't half-bad, but that third one was an abomination. I still can't think of one good thing to say about it after all this time. Good luck.
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Post by Aotrs Commander on Oct 6, 2016 10:46:36 GMT -4
Okay... A good few more episodes and one period of oh-ye-gods-I'm-dying sickness later... (During which I was mostly watching Dragons Race to the Edge and Red Dwarf XI.)
Wrap up for - as convenient - BW Rival Destinies and the frst hald of XY season one.)
All for the Love of Meloetta! Once again, we are shown that if Ash was remotely interested in females, he'd we wading hip-deep in them, because human or Pokémon, all the girls love Ash. Cynthia shows she's bit dippy beneath the whole "champion" thing (which is nice)... But at the same time, throughout this entire arc, she basically treats Ash as unquestioningly competant. (And not unjustifyably so.)
Actually, I have a entirely unsubstantiated crack-theory that the reason she has Ash and co staying the whole time is she and Ash are secretly going at it, which would at the very least form the basis of An Hilarious Fanfic...
Piplup, Pansage, and a Meeting of the Times! and Expedition to Onix Island! And then Dawn and Piplup plus Oshawatt and it is as glorious as could possibly be imagined. This is the good stuff, character interaction of the best sort. Seriously. They REALLY need to bring back and mix up all the old companions more often. This is the stuff I love to death. Characters interacting outside of their own normal circles to mix it up a bit. Though nothing can compare to Oshawatt and Piplup, seeing Dawn and Iris was almost as much a joy.
Also, DAMMIT why doesn't Melotta kick more arse?
Iris and the Rogue Dragonite! Officer Jenny is a complete fuck-wit.
I'd also be screaming at Ash to explain about Charizard, but in my travels, I've seen at least one screenshot that suggests that's coming sometime down the line. Jostling For The Junior Cup!, Battling Authority, Once Again!, Ugly Dragon vs. Grumpy Mammoth, Ash, Iris and Trip: Then There Were Three!, Goodbye, Junior Cup - Hello Adventure!
And then the good stuff they'd generated with all this by completely wasting it on this crap.
The main thing Unova has taught is that one-on-one matches are BORING. There's very little strategy involved, and dramatically, there's not much you can do with the outcome. (Though at least it somewhat avoids the whole "they knock each other out" thing which is used a bit too often in my opinion.)
Yeah, this was not only a dull rehash of the last TWO TIMES they've done this, without all the usual suspects, but Dawn basically gets thrown under a bus for the sake of Iris's development. And that's not even the climax, because everyone gets thrown under a bus for TRIP who is, as I've said before, not even close to Paul. It wasn't even a sastifying beat-down. Basically, this whole arc was completely wasted.
If it was me, I'd have had Trip get his ass kicked in round one again (not by Ash, maybe by Cilan (again) or maybe Dawn)... Make this basically about Iris and thus have Ash get knocked out against either Dawn or Cilan, and come to the finish with Iris and Dawn THEN have Dawn lose and Iris have a shot at Alder and thus teach Dragonite not to be too overconfident.
And THEN the final with Dawn and Ash isn't even Oshawatt verses Piplup. I mean 'COME ON?!
At least their farewell was nicely done.
To cap out the episode, we meet a complete tool who is dumber than Ash and more annoyingly than Kenny and Biance combined. I was REALLY hoping it'd work up to something really funny, like this was THE Cameron and he actually, like, ended up going back in time or something with Riolu for his destiny as That Cameron in Hoenn or whatever or something... But no. Apparently (thus far) co-inidink.
The Road to Humilau! Banal filler with Even-dumber-Ash, followed by a very underwhelming gym battle that served.. No purpose.
Except to set-up Cameron as the Richie who will knock Ash out in the League before he gets beaten by someone else. I'm calling it now. Ash (finally) beats Trip, gets beaten by Cameron. *sigh* Unrest at the Nursery! Have they ever encountered a nursery whose staff isn't crap at their jobs? Does Uunova have a Idiot Field that makes everyone really, really bad, so if Iris and Cilan actually leave the region they'd be like the super-bestedt trainers ever or something? And Team Rocket went down so much they actually looped round to competance or something?
Meloetta and the Undersea Temple! Aaaand we're back to the good stuff. Ridely is a fuckin' idiot, though. Yes, why don't you immediately attack the first people you see in a back garden standing around smiling while conducting battle on a proper field the fracking backyard of the SINNOH CHAMNPION. I mean, it's not like you later SHOW that you can sense when Melotta is in distress and she CLEARLY wasn't there you muppet. Especially as it denied us a chance to see Melotta kick and proper arse.
But hey - after, what seventeen seasons, Team Rocket actually Do A Thing that makes them a legitimate threat. Bonus points for Giovanni first capturing ASH instead of the old "[Pokémon] gets capturd, Ash follows" cliche, which made it feel much less contrived and Giovanni come across as much smarter. (I also notice he was smart enough to to try and brawl with Pikachu...) Unova's Survival Crisis! This episode comes back to what I was saying about Cynthia. (Not the "is-banging-Ash" thing, though one feels that she might like to.) She doesn't call for any back-up or anything because she knows she has Ash Motherfucking Ketchum on the case, she don't need Officer Jenny and her half-wits fucking things up. I dunno about you guys, but I get the impression - like the guide said in her first reappearance - Cynthia considers Ash to be basically an honourary Champion.
And, to be fair, she ain't fucking wrong is she? Pik-Motherfucking-Chu splashes Giovanni with a fracking one-hit-KO! Now, that's what I'm talking about.
Tip of the hat to Pansage, though. Little bastard is one tough bugger, tanking up there with two psuedo-legendaries and ghost-mecha against legendaries who kicked his arse last time with only 66% of them gunning for him. Props, little green monkey dude, props.
Kinda disappointed that Melotta just sang 'em all to normal, I was kinda hopoing for a whole magical-girl-lyrical-Melotta Starlight-Breakers-through-the-fucking-starship moment, but eh. And for once Team Rocket genuinely show to their boss that, for all their many, many, many faults... He's got their undying loyalty if nothing else. And he - finally - does seem to appreciate it!
XY
A Jolting Switcheroo! You people are idiots.
A Rush of Ninja Wisdom! Froakie learned Shadow Clone. Yeah, it's turning in Naruto proper-like. (And, on balance, discounting the late series dip, that's not a bad thing...)
Awakening the Sleeping Giant! Pahahahahaha! Ash, Bonnie, Serena, you gus are such dicks!
A Conspiracy to Conquer! Okay then. Actually, as soon as they saw Jenny's bike I was like "oohhhh shit, I can see where this is going." Add another one to the list of "Pokémon who definitely ARE evil" list. Reading between the lines, I'm actually guessing Malamar's device was probably something to broadcast its mind control through the observatory annentae. I liked that the show (the dub at least, maybe the Japanese is different) didn't actually outright say it, though, Subtle.
Breaking Titles at the Chateau! Of COURSE it would be one-on-one battles. Still, at least it's better than the Unova ones. We're going to have a lot of off-screen battles is Ash gets anywhere with it though...
A Pokévision of Things to Come! Why ios TV so fracking terrible in Pokémonland? I mean, this is... probably better than in the game,s but wow.
Also, REALLY Serena? you get Ash to stop his special training JUST so that he can hold a fucking reflecting doofer all day for you? C'mon!
Going for the Gold! Notably absent: mini-misty lure. Also... why are Magikarp attracted to Magikarp lures...? That's... kind of dark, isn't it?
Coming Back into the Cold! At least they didn't make too much of bringing fossils to life as a process this time. I mean, at this point, it's old hat to Ash. Amaura is a LOT bigger than I though it was, though. Show how much attention I pay to the Pokédexes, don't it?
Climbing the Walls! Patent (and long-overdue) Ash-HAX. Though he probably ought to stop taking naming inspiration from Clemont...
Overall, then, XY is still beautiful to the point that the fillers feel much less filler-y. Serena, though... I can start to see why she's got a bit of an apparent hate-dom. I don't dislike her or anything, but she doesn't seem to be living up to the potential that she showed in the first few episodes, either as a character or for Comedy Gold Ash Obliviousness fodder. I dunno. I think partly it's because she hasn't really got A Thing other than "be a girly-girly" and Dawn did that a bit better, honestly. (And frankly, that character steriptype is up against some stiff competition in my head, since my other Big Thing is Friendship is Magic and Serena is no Rarity...)
I LOVE the way it handles Ash, though. For displaying his evident skill, to his now cheerfully self-aware denseness. I give it a standing ovation.
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Donkarasu
Dodgemaster
Still here, but also not here.
Posts: 4,649
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Post by Donkarasu on Oct 6, 2016 15:24:10 GMT -4
Well I got another enemy. Although reading your past comments I saw this coming, I could tell wouldn't see Cameron as hilarious (he is).
I'm really thankful I found people on Tumblr who like Cameron, he's a precious and adorable child who is just scatterbrained. Protect him!
Also I admire that Cameron never gives up (no matter how big the mistake is) and from this he's gotten that far and trained his team well.
But even though we are enemies it doesn't mean I hate you, I don't hate people for their opinions. In order for me to hate you have to....
Never shut the fuck up about Cameron following a certain thing with him, basically talking about him way more than people who do like him.
Yes, I'm the kind of person who ends up loving innocent unpopular characters. Another one is Alain. What did he do? You will find out soon...
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Post by Aotrs Commander on Oct 6, 2016 16:45:06 GMT -4
I don't necessarily hate Cameron (I mean, he's far better than Trip who is just... Well, not to put to finer a point on it, shit.)
But what I DO think he is forced. He ought to have been brought in INSTEAD of Trip right from the start; then he'd have made a far more interesting rival (and a good contrast to Paul). As I say, it feels very much like he's being flung in here at the last minute and really the only reason would be to a) be part of some major arc (unlikely at this point) or b) be Some Guy that (probably) beats Ash at the league. BW is a bit predictable with its narrative - especially in this late stage. Ash is going to finally beat Trip in the League and then get knocked out (probably the next round).
Though I might allow a small chance Trip beats him, but that seems less dramatically rewarding, siunce it means that their relationship has not changed substantially since Trip's introduction (and Trip's only character "development" was nothing to do with Ash at all.)
So, Cameron just feels like it's a bit of pants attempt to introduce a guy very much like Ash so that he can just barely beat Ash in the League and make it not so bad.
Now, I might be way off here (won't be long, though until I watch it myself), but that was my gut reaction.
(For the record, I didn't dislike Richie. Though aside from his spin-off appearance did we ever see him again? Because he probably could have been made more of as a recurring league rival or something.)
As we're here:
Beauties Battling for Pride and Prestige! Pahahahahaha!This was glorious! First I was like "harsh and innaccurate" when the girls insulted Emolga and then I was like "oh no, you did NOT just go there, you are going to get a right kicking," when they picked on FRACKING SNIVY, otherwise known as Best Pokémon This Region (except Pikachu) Sorry Oshawatt. And as soon as Iris was told "they only let girls is I was "oh no, are they going to...? Are they going to...? FRACK YES! ASH-inna-dress and it doesn't get more hilarious than that. Perhaps I am as petty as Iris (and yes, yes I REALLY am), but I took far too much pleasure in watching the girls get their arses handed to them by Emolga and Snivy.
(Though I did think it was a nice touch that Ash and Cilan were a bit clueless to it all. The sort of physical-appearance-based snippiness going on there is the sort of thing that tends to go on more between females (especially younger ones and Iris and co are right in the social-clique-ostracising-age-group) than males and so it made sense that it would be a bit bizarre to the boys why Iris was making such a bug deal out of it.)
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Donkarasu
Dodgemaster
Still here, but also not here.
Posts: 4,649
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Post by Donkarasu on Oct 6, 2016 17:32:51 GMT -4
I don't necessarily hate Cameron (I mean, he's far better than Trip who is just... Well, not to put to finer a point on it, shit.) But what I DO think he is forced. He ought to have been brought in INSTEAD of Trip right from the start; then he'd have made a far more interesting rival (and a good contrast to Paul). As I say, it feels very much like he's being flung in here at the last minute and really the only reason would be to a) be part of some major arc (unlikely at this point) or b) be Some Guy that (probably) beats Ash at the league. BW is a bit predictable with its narrative - especially in this late stage. Ash is going to finally beat Trip in the League and then get knocked out (probably the next round). Ah, sorry for assuming, just got that from your post. Also Cameron being Ash's main rival instead of Trip is something I too said should have happened. Heck, he doesn't even have to be main rival, Cameron should have appeared earlier in the anime general, I mean they could have done a lot with him.
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Post by Aotrs Commander on Oct 6, 2016 17:45:22 GMT -4
I should note that I am allowing a little of the running gags and tone of the guides to perculate into these little round-ups (and thus am exaggerating the negatives more for comedic effect)... Though perhaps my phrasing in that case was a little... harsher than was perhaps sufficient for that purpose.
(Heck, I'm not used to being able to use swear words in posting, given that both of the major websites I frequented since I started doing the forum thing yonks ago were/are well-moderated large places where such things were disallowed for civility (large user-base = more asshats)... So there's some of that and also that this was one of the first posts I made after getting my head back together after being ill!)
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Post by SeriousJupiter on Oct 6, 2016 20:55:14 GMT -4
Piplup, Pansage, and a Meeting of the Times! and Expedition to Onix Island!And then Dawn and Piplup plus Oshawatt and it is as glorious as could possibly be imagined. This is the good stuff, character interaction of the best sort. Seriously. They REALLY need to bring back and mix up all the old companions more often. This is the stuff I love to death. Characters interacting outside of their own normal circles to mix it up a bit. Though nothing can compare to Oshawatt and Piplup, seeing Dawn and Iris was almost as much a joy. Also, DAMMIT why doesn't Melotta kick more arse? If you want my opinion, I didn't like Dawn and Iris's interaction at all. For some reason, Dawn suddenly decided to imitate her new friend and call Ash a kid and belittle him and it made no fucking sense at all. I don't think I've told you this yet, but in my opinion, one of the absolute worst things about BW was Iris. Worst female companion ever. She made fun of Ash, she was a terrible Trainer and the only thing she had going for her was her weird Dragon-type Connection Power or something... Not that it did her any good in the end. It broke my heart to see her bring Dawn down to her level. However, I do agree with you on Piplup and Oshawott. Those two were hilarious. Iris and the Rogue Dragonite! Officer Jenny is a complete fuck-wit. Yep. I'd also be screaming at Ash to explain about Charizard, but in my travels, I've seen at least one screenshot that suggests that's coming sometime down the line. Also yep. Jostling For The Junior Cup!, Battling Authority, Once Again!, Ugly Dragon vs. Grumpy Mammoth, Ash, Iris and Trip: Then There Were Three!, Goodbye, Junior Cup - Hello Adventure!And then the good stuff they'd generated with all this by completely wasting it on this crap. The main thing Unova has taught is that one-on-one matches are BORING. There's very little strategy involved, and dramatically, there's not much you can do with the outcome. (Though at least it somewhat avoids the whole "they knock each other out" thing which is used a bit too often in my opinion.) Yeah, this was not only a dull rehash of the last TWO TIMES they've done this, without all the usual suspects, but Dawn basically gets thrown under a bus for the sake of Iris's development. And that's not even the climax, because everyone gets thrown under a bus for TRIP who is, as I've said before, not even close to Paul. It wasn't even a sastifying beat-down. Basically, this whole arc was completely wasted. If it was me, I'd have had Trip get his ass kicked in round one again (not by Ash, maybe by Cilan (again) or maybe Dawn)... Make this basically about Iris and thus have Ash get knocked out against either Dawn or Cilan, and come to the finish with Iris and Dawn THEN have Dawn lose and Iris have a shot at Alder and thus teach Dragonite not to be too overconfident. And THEN the final with Dawn and Ash isn't even Oshawatt verses Piplup. I mean 'COME ON?! At least their farewell was nicely done. Thank you. I agree with ALMOST all of this, and I have a bunch of other things to add as well. First, the one thing I disagree with is that I wouldn't have used this arc for Iris's development. There's no way she and Dragonite would ever have won the whole thing at that point, or more accurately, they shouldn't have won it because they were so out of synch. I'm glad they lost to Ash, but I can't take any real pleasure in that defeat because Ash and Krokorok won that match by using one of the other things I consider the very worst about BW - the goddamn Evolution Asspull. Talk about an overused and anticlimactic way to turn a battle around. I thought Ash was supposed to win battles with strategy and quick thinking, not by having his Pokémon evolve in the middle of battles and thus healing all their wounds and giving them an unrealistic power boost out of nowhere? I still can't believe the writers did that five fucking times in Unova. What's wrong with having Pokémon evolve AFTER winning a battle like they're supposed to? What a load of bullshit. Anyway... I would have been perfectly fine with Trip winning IF it hadn't been done so ridiculously poorly. His Serperior OHKO'd Fire-types left and right with a Grass-type Special Attack after lowering their Defense with Leer?! Not only that, but the damn thing was also so fast that it could dodge every single attack that was used against it?! Laaaaaaame. I never liked Trip, so I really did want to see him get his ass handed to him by Alder, but... Ugh. No wonder this joke of a tournament was the end of his so-called character development. Back to Iris. To be blunt, I despise her. Very much. That's why I was surprised to feel almost sorry for her when she made such a fool out of herself with Dragonite. The first two battles were terrible, but I could buy Dragonite winning them because it was so tough and had Multiscale. But their battle against Ash... Oy vey. Before Dragonite went nuts, Iris should have won that battle easily if she actually had had any idea what she was doing. Her Dragonite had an awesome movepool with a powerful STAB and a super-effective attack against Ground-types, and what did Iris do? Spam Flamethrower. Facepalm. She's so bad that it's not even funny. Krokorok really should have been able to win without the Evolution Asspull. There's a reason why my nickname for the Junior Cup is Junior Fuckup.To cap out the episode, we meet a complete tool who is dumber than Ash and more annoyingly than Kenny and Biance combined. I was REALLY hoping it'd work up to something really funny, like this was THE Cameron and he actually, like, ended up going back in time or something with Riolu for his destiny as That Cameron in Hoenn or whatever or something... But no. Apparently (thus far) co-inidink. Ohhhh shit. I should have warned you about Cameron. Luckily you and Don already seem to have come to an agreement of sorts. Also, I too think the Meloetta arc's finale was pretty good, at least by BW's standards. I might actually rewatch it some day if I have nothing better to do. Overall, then, XY is still beautiful to the point that the fillers feel much less filler-y. Serena, though... I can start to see why she's got a bit of an apparent hate-dom. I don't dislike her or anything, but she doesn't seem to be living up to the potential that she showed in the first few episodes, either as a character or for Comedy Gold Ash Obliviousness fodder. I dunno. I think partly it's because she hasn't really got A Thing other than "be a girly-girly" and Dawn did that a bit better, honestly. (And frankly, that character steriptype is up against some stiff competition in my head, since my other Big Thing is Friendship is Magic and Serena is no Rarity...) I LOVE the way it handles Ash, though. For displaying his evident skill, to his now cheerfully self-aware denseness. I give it a standing ovation. Dude, you're becoming like my new favorite person on the Internet. I couldn't have said any of that better myself. Also, don't worry, Serena will get better.
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Donkarasu
Dodgemaster
Still here, but also not here.
Posts: 4,649
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Post by Donkarasu on Oct 7, 2016 2:11:09 GMT -4
Yeah XY was good, but when it gets to XY&Z/XYZ it just feels like they are trying way too hard to impress the audience.
Of course that's how I see it, Aotrs probably won't seeing it like that, but to me it has a case of just doing way too much.
My other problem with XYZ: Ash-worshipping. I won't go into details, but he has superior treatment over other characters.
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Post by Aotrs Commander on Oct 7, 2016 9:18:27 GMT -4
If you want my opinion, I didn't like Dawn and Iris's interaction at all. For some reason, Dawn suddenly decided to imitate her new friend and call Ash a kid and belittle him and it made no fucking sense at all. I don't think I've told you this yet, but in my opinion, one of the absolute worst things about BW was Iris. Worst female companion ever. She made fun of Ash, she was a terrible Trainer and the only thing she had going for her was her weird Dragon-type Connection Power or something... Not that it did her any good in the end. It broke my heart to see her bring Dawn down to her level. Back to Iris. To be blunt, I despise her. Very much. That's why I was surprised to feel almost sorry for her when she made such a fool out of herself with Dragonite. The first two battles were terrible, but I could buy Dragonite winning them because it was so tough and had Multiscale. But their battle against Ash... Oy vey. Before Dragonite went nuts, Iris should have won that battle easily if she actually had had any idea what she was doing. Her Dragonite had an awesome movepool with a powerful STAB and a super-effective attack against Ground-types, and what did Iris do? Spam Flamethrower. Facepalm. She's so bad that it's not even funny. Krokorok really should have been able to win without the Evolution Asspull. I actually don't mind Iris. She has her moments (and her moments of irritation), but she obviously rubs you the wrong way (like Bianca does for me, though not quite to that extent).
Yeah XY was good, but when it gets to XY&Z/XYZ it just feels like they are trying way too hard to impress the audience. Of course that's how I see it, Aotrs probably won't seeing it like that, but to me it has a case of just doing way too much. My other problem with XYZ: Ash-worshipping. I won't go into details, but he has superior treatment over other characters.
Yeah, as you surmise, I sort of don't have a problem with Ash-worshipping, kinda on account of me being (as you may have noticed...) a bit of an Ash-fan. A Village Homecoming! and Drayden Versus Iris; Past, Present, and Future! Or Time For Backstory, Iris Edition! (Or Time For Rant!) Okay. What this pair of episodes leave me with is that Drayden is fucking TERRIBLE at his job. Not only is he a spectacularly poor teacher, but he's not even a very good trainer. Where to even begin? What kind of fucked-up school is he running where all the kids can't even take five minutes out from studying (and apparently, the school has NO STUDENTS that are just naturally bright but non-intensive-studiers (like I was for example). I mean really? For what, six, seven, eight? year old kids not to find the crazy tree girl (who has her own Pokémon) even a little bit cool (especially as she's TRYING to make friends)... And I have some relatability with Iris, something that doesn't come up very often. I always have and always will march to the beat of my own drum and damn the torpedoes. When time came for secondary school, both of the candidates in my area had terrible reputations and my parents were both concerned that I would be bullied constantly because I WILL NOT fit in (not can't, flat WON'T), so I ended up at a small private secondary school. I had a couple of friends there, but they both left, so for the majority of the five years, I was basically on my own. Now, me being me, I could easily cope with that (to the point that me coping with that annoyed some of the other (female) students who proceeded to take it out on my sister once I'd left unfortunately); and I also the most ahdead acedemically, so I wasn't out of my depth as much as Iris was (nor was it a boarding school). But nevertheless, I can see where Iris is coming from, at least by proxy; there but for the grace of the Arceus and all that. What is pathetic about Drayden's "school" is that, despite it being exclusive, despite it being invitation only... Drayden actually can only apparently cope with a very small and specific mindset of child. Which is pretty damn disgraceful; especially for someone who is also supposed to be a gym leader. Iris should have been recieveing special help (doublely so since it was obvious she was academically struggling). But no, Drayden is so up his own arse with his whole "look how scary and intimidating I am" that apprently that sort of thing is beneath him. And I've got to say. The beard. NO. Just... NO. That is NOT something a school headmaster of any cop should be sporting. It is basically equivilent to wearing sunglasses all the time. How can you express yourself properly when your mouth is hidden? "But," someone says "Drayden doesn't ever smile, so why would we ever need to see-" EXACTLY THE POINT! If Drayden isn't even going to PRETEND to smile and be kind to the small children under his tutaledge, he clearly is not really suited for it, because that shit is kind necessary to be, y'know, good at dealing with this sort of thing. Hearts and minds and all that/ So basically, Drayden is quite literally a worse teacher than fracking ASH. And let's go back to the "is a bad trainer" thing. I will say just one thing: When was the last time we saw someone NOT thanking their Pokémon after a battle? That would be Paul, would it not (before he got Ashed)? Was Paul a good trainer? Er... No. No he was not. He was a STRONG trainer but strong =/= good. (And he, at least, might have improved). And here we go, Drayden didn't thank either of his Pokémon in the battle againsy Iris and I felt that was vey telling absense. Iris can't become gm leader soon enough to get that idiot out of his position.
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Post by Aotrs Commander on Oct 8, 2016 14:39:26 GMT -4
Next load of episodes... (Bit more "stream-of-consciousness" like.)
Team Eevee and the Pokémon Rescue Squad! Generic filler episode, only notable for another rival for the League. Now, perhaps I was mistaken about Cameron - this guy is the "older" sort of chap who always beat Ash, so maybe THIS is the guy who'll knock him out of the league...
Curtain Up, Unova League! Finally and off we go!
Bianca made it (dang), Trip made it (double-dang), Stephan made it (Huzzah! And they even got his name right and he was so happy, bless 'im!) and there's Virgil... Well, that's a lot of rivals for Ash to beat.
Trip appears to have suddenly mellowed so... His rivalry with Ash meant precisiely nothing, didn't it? That one moderate defeat against Alder was it for his character arc.
And there's Cameron. And... he didn't register.
"What's a register? Is it a new type of Pokémon?"
Oh my Arceus.
He really is verifiably more stupid than Ash.
Y'know, perhaps I was too hard on him; picking on someone that dumb is just not cricket, it is? (How does he even function?) And it's actually worth it to Ash actually having to do what usually has to be doing for him, bless his little Cottonee socks. You, sir, are a saint Mr Ketchum.
Right. And, off to the League preliminary rounds and-
You have got to be FUCKING KIDDING ME!
ONE ON ONE matches! One on FUCKING ONE matches?! AGAIN?
What the fracking fucking frelling fragging frack is this series obession with one-on-one matches? This is forth time they've done this.
That... is also unbelievable unfair. Sure, the Johto League had three one-on-one matches and you were judged on your performance. This... this is sudden death BULLSHIT. All that year's work can go down in one go, thanks to just purely unfair randomisation. If you happen to get stuffed with a type advantage (like eveyone bar Cameron and technically Trip and Ash got in their matchups), you're screwed.
That is bullshit.
(Apparently, on checking, Hoenn does the same. It's still bullshit.)
And Ash is fighting Trip in round one. So, either Ash is going to be knocked out right off the bat or Trip ends the series as he has begun it, with a slight plop, leaving no impact. Hell, it's not even going to be very satisfying, gven how basically lacking in strategy these one on ones are.
My fracking Arceus.
Mission: Defeat Your Rival! And Trip is out. Though, to be fair to the episode, I was actually worried that Ash was going to lose. Albeit for meta-reasons rather than plain dramatic tension, but to write such that the audience will geniunely believe you would be that shitty to your lead character is... sort of an achievement, actually.
Okay, I was wrong, it was sort of satisfying.
And of COURSE Trip is off, taking his ball home with him. Because if it doesn't directly involve him, he's off. And so departs the single most dull, insipid and pointless rival Pokémon has ever had. And good riddance.
Next up... Cameron and Bianca.
*skulldesk*
Here's a match that I actually don't know who to root for. On the other hand, I don't particularly CARE about it either, so...
I think Cameron might do better if he just took that headband off seriously. Or if, failing that it just proves my point about the stupid aura in Unova (which apparetnly extends to the League organisers) and the impact shock is enough to momentarily dispel it.
Whelp, Bianca is out. But I'm going to guess that she doesn't frack off right away... Maybe?
Lost at the League!
...
We got to see the full fight between Bianca and Cameron (two bloody side characters), but ASH'S fight gets cut down to nothing?! Actually, no, really, Cameron vrs Bianca was the ONLY fight of the second round we got to see?
Fuck you, Best Wishes, FUCK. YOU.
This "only the named characters get to properly fight" was a bit poor even in DP (but that at least was only for the contests), and it's LONG worn out its welcome by this point.
Yeah, and there we go; Bianca's watching. Proof, if any were needed, that yes, Bianca is actually a better trainer than Trip.
*sigh*
And Ash verses Stephan. Shit. So that means, my most likely guess at this point is Cameron beats Ash, Virgil beats Cameron and wins the League.
...
Axew, you're an idiot. Oshawatt, you're a blithering idiot.
This was... A mediocre sort of "Pokémon-centric adventure"-lite. I actually feel kinda sorry of Cameron, though. That family were asshats and Iris could have... shown anything resemlbling restraint.
But as the guide notes, this episode understands security camera footage rather better than most...
Strong Strategy Steals the Show! There now, Best Wishes. Was it so hard to actually have a decent battle for once? (And why do I get the feeling Ash verses Stephan is probably the best of the league?) Hey look, actual strategy on the parts of both trainers, and not just "hit each other with attacks" as has characterised most of the one-on-one battles.
Also, Stephan cements his position of Best Recurring Companion This Series by sticking around to cheer for Ash, because (to be fair to her) like Bianca, he's not a self-absorbed little shit who goes off to sulk as soon as he gets beaten.
(Far cry from the first episodes I saw Stephan and was underwhelmed...)
And... Shit. Ash verses Cameron. So... Either Ash loses here or he loses to Virgil. (I totally called him being the "older guy who beats Ash, didn't I?)
Cameron's secret weapon is... Hydreigon.
Oookay. Yeah. That... that is actually a good secret weapon. Cameron. Touché. Well. Shit.
Cameron’s Secret Weapon! Uuuurgh. It started well enough - Boldore was a reaonable choice, but no. Oshawatt... Was a stupid choice, unless Ash WAS actually using him to wear Hydreigon down (despite what they said, Ash is smart enough to do just that when he has to (see Orange League)).
Cameron proceeded to... basically give away two of his Pokémon with the incredibly assinine decision to send out Ferrothorn and Swanna against opponents they were double-vulnerable too. After his patent headband-ideas, too.
And, as I was afriad of, there was basically no strategy in this battle again, it was all "thump each other with attacks." It's seems clear that Cameron is kind of unable to think of anything else and unfortunately, Ash was basically letting himself be suckered into avoiding his own strategic thinking by Cameron's enthusiasm.
And then Cameron revealed he was one Pokémon down. Which was really bad. Because that said that, given how they'd basically tossed away two of his Pokémon meant that Ash was going to lose. Why? Because narratively, it made more sense for Cameron - as suddenly the underdog - to win with five Pokémon than for Ash to win over an opponent he'd got an unfair advantage over.
I also concur with the guide, with the in-universe repercussions - for Cameron to actually be that fucking stupid is inexcusable and any goodwill he gained just evaporated. It isn't, frankly, humorous silliness at this point, it's flat out insulting to his competition. I note that there is no sympathy from the organisers, nor should there be.
Aaand then Lucario evolved, because of course it fucking did.
A Unova League Evolution!
*sigh*
Yeah. Yeah, I was right. And that battle was... Actually probably one of the worst League battles I've ever seen; there was no cleverness of Ash's part, just "hit each other with attacks." And Ash is normnally at his best in the league (and was, against Stephan). Here... He doesn't even try a basic strategy, like using Attract.
And that was argueably the most bullshit-y ones as well. Even Tobias basically HAX'd with in-universe bollocks... Where as this was so bad, I'm not angry at Cameron, I'm angry at the WRITERS. Him only having five Pokémon just pours salt into the wound and makes it feel worse than even the defeat to Tobias. I can't fathom why the freaking heck the writers would have made that decision, because it basically robs Ash of any dignity (he got beat by someone so fucking stupid he didn't even bring the right number of Pokémon) and of any pretense of dramatic tension, because as soon as that was announced, it was clear that Cameron was going to win. Was it because they couldn't be arsed to animate one more Pokémon taking a fall?
No good deed, right, Ash?
Hah! Called it. Virgil beats Cameron. Yeah, Cameron, you deserved that. Six to three, pretty much a landslide. Not surprising, really; if Ash had actually been on his game (and not, for some reason, once more refusing to dig out his older veterans) and using strategy (like it appears tha Virgil was; Cilan basically confirms it, in rather more words...) rather than meeting head to head, he'd have stomped Cameron easily: let us not forget Cameron twice had a "brainwave" from his headband that was to send a double vulnerable Pokémon out to be flattened.
Also HAH, Virgil only used five Pokémon. Karma's a bitch, ain't it?
At least Virgil won - because his opponent I'm sure was one of them as seen as a practical no-names in one of the earlier one-on-ones, weren't he? That would really have just been the final straw, wouldn't it?
I think the worst part of it is it just doesn't feel like Cameron deserved his win. The guy can't even be bloody arsed to read the rules (his naive ignorance doesn't excuse that) or, apparently, to have EVER read the rules. He literally would not be there at all if Ash hadn't bent over backwards - TWICE to help him. And yet he is allowed to not only beat Ash, but beat Ash while at a handicap - both in terms of number of Pokémon, but also in the writers making Ash not use even any basic strategy. And even after wasting two of his five Pokémon. It doesn't feel like he won because of hard work or effort or strategy, it feels like he won because a) he shouted loud enough and b) the writers just railroaded Ash into losing.
If Ash had lost to Virgil, it wouldn't have been bad. Virgil is clearly very good, and unlike Tobias, doesn't feel like he's HAXing with brute force. Ash verses Virgil... Actually, that would have been pretty damn awesome and you can bet it would have been closer than the 3-6 curb stomp that Cameron managed.
I think my only consolation is that Cameron is so bad at stuff that he'll probably never be able to compete again because without Ash to QUITE LITERALLY in one case lead him by the hand in the right direction...
Hmm. Yeah, as with the end of Mass Effect 3, the carry-away bit of this rather spoils a lot of what went before. I was surprised to note that basically all of the leagues have only spanned over 5-6 episodes, with only DP's reaching seven. And Ash and Paul's three-parter-battle basically means that (unless XY gives us anything different, though without a Paul to grind an axe against, the Kalos League wil have to try a bit harder to surpass it.) I can see how this league could well colour people's reflections on the series as a whole, since it started out quite well, but the end here is definitely worse than the eariler ones.
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frewd
Junior Dodger
Posts: 26
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Post by frewd on Oct 8, 2016 14:46:08 GMT -4
Your reactions to Cameron remind me of the Pokemopolis guides, tit for tat.
Good times, good times. Maybe you can be the new Tim?
ETA: Actually, might as well ask around this time, for the folk that did watch this. If Ash really had to lose at this ranking, top 8 and all, which of his Unova rivals would've been better to lose to compared to Cameron? Trip, Bianca, Stephen or Virgil?
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Post by Aotrs Commander on Oct 8, 2016 16:52:34 GMT -4
Your reactions to Cameron remind me of the Pokemopolis guides, tit for tat. Good times, good times. Maybe you can be the new Tim? ETA: Actually, might as well ask around this time, for the folk that did watch this. If Ash really had to lose at this ranking, top 8 and all, which of his Unova rivals would've been better to lose to compared to Cameron? Trip, Bianca, Stephen or Virgil? This time, I mostly wrote the episode thoughts up before I read the guide (with only a few notes afterwards), so great minds and all that...! I'd have said Virgil or Stephan. Either you;d have had Virgil beat Ash - and the Stephan go on to beat the league (and show how far he's come) or Stephan beat Ash and then lose to Virgil after a stiff fight.
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