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Post by Ryu Taylor, Dub Lover on Aug 3, 2015 17:36:08 GMT -4
Just as a get-to-know-everyone exercise: what are your criteria of what makes a good dub? And what are your examples (this step is optional)? I'll go first.
My criteria:
- Story and characters aren't mangled up to the point of incomprehensibility.
- Characters, if they're changed at all, ought to retain their likability.
What I don't consider strikes against a dub:
- Music changes.
- Dialogue rewrites that don't interfere with plot.
- Name pronounciation changes.
What I think are worth laughing at:
- Nonsense paint edits.
- When a dialogue rewrite is a really bad joke, or even a good one.
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Donkarasu
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Post by Donkarasu on Aug 3, 2015 17:57:07 GMT -4
Stick closely to the original script. The only acceptable rewrites are words in Japanese (like jokes) which do not work in English.
Keep the original opening and ending and if the choice of dubbing them is made, make sure the lyrics are similar to the original.
Keep the original background music. Anime uses a full orchestra, that's way better than synthesizing music that some dubs use.
No edits or censors; if the show has blood, then the anime should air in a time were little kids are asleep so to keep all violence.
And have excellent voice acting, making sure the voice actor or actress will be fully suited to the role of the character they voice.
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sassywhofarted
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Post by sassywhofarted on Aug 3, 2015 18:41:52 GMT -4
I think the dub should follow everything from the original, except for Japanese writings and spellings.
Failing that, they might as well go all out and change the show. Like the 4kids dub of One Piece. Only thing is I don't think censorship should be done at all. |
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madmax
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Post by madmax on Aug 5, 2015 9:06:07 GMT -4
As I said in my other thread, I'm getting my car worked on now, so I'm a bit frazzled, and also tired, so I'll try my best to make sense.
I agree with keeping true to the original and not censoring stuff. The thing is though, I think there still is the mentality in the US that animation is kind of for kids; even though we've had stuff like South Park and Family Guy. I would love to see more mature-oriented anime on regular(i.e. non-cable/satellite) tv.
Of course, Pokemon itself has a few dub issues.
I can understand where they might want to change Japanese names, to make them easier to remember. I don't know why they would have to switch English names. Prima's name was originally Lorelei, even though Lorelei is an English name.
I also think they shouldn't get rid of Japanese references. I'm looking at you "donuts". With writing, they should only change it to English if it is important. Also, they shouldn't waste the time and money to change Japanese writing to squiggles/gibberish.
I guess I'll just end with this. Unfortunately, an example of a bad dub is Battle of the Planets.
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Donkarasu
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Post by Donkarasu on Aug 5, 2015 9:49:59 GMT -4
Yes, no changing Japanese foods to American foods or naming them as such. The biggest problem with this is it happens in children's anime. Companies like 4Kids are denying children to be able to learn more about the world and seeing foreign food in cartoons is one way to do this. I can understand where they might want to change Japanese names, to make them easier to remember. I don't know why they would have to switch English names. Prima's name was originally Lorelei, even though Lorelei is an English name. Lorelei's name in the Japanese version is Kanna, the reason why 4Kids called her Prima and not Lorelei was so to match the syllables with her Japanese name. |
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sassywhofarted
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Post by sassywhofarted on Aug 5, 2015 12:15:02 GMT -4
Lorelei's name in the Japanese version is Kanna, the reason why 4Kids called her Prima and not Lorelei was so to match the syllables with her Japanese name. Yeah, like Harley. *hides* |
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Donkarasu
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Post by Donkarasu on Aug 5, 2015 17:31:37 GMT -4
Yeah, like Harley. *hides* What is that supposed to mean? Harley has the same name in the Japanese and the dub version of the Pokémon anime (also he is not a game character). |
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sassywhofarted
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Post by sassywhofarted on Aug 6, 2015 20:41:42 GMT -4
My point was that his name was Endish in both versions. I know he wasn't a video game character, but that's not important.
Let's see... I liked that dubs done for Cowboy Bebop, Death Note, and Space Dandy. I like anything done by Monster House I suppose. Deadman Wonderland's dub wasn't the best, the main character's voice annoyed me. The woman (I'm guessing) did have great acting range though. Naruto was average for me, Hamtaro was done well, Bleach was sub-par, Zatch bell was average. Whoever dubbed BoBoBo Bo-BoBoBo did an amazing job considering the show.
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madmax
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Post by madmax on Aug 7, 2015 15:45:31 GMT -4
Yes, no changing Japanese foods to American foods or naming them as such. The biggest problem with this is it happens in children's anime. Companies like 4Kids are denying children to be able to learn more about the world and seeing foreign food in cartoons is one way to do this. I can understand where they might want to change Japanese names, to make them easier to remember. I don't know why they would have to switch English names. Prima's name was originally Lorelei, even though Lorelei is an English name. Lorelei's name in the Japanese version is Kanna, the reason why 4Kids called her Prima and not Lorelei was so to match the syllables with her Japanese name. Where is she called Lorelei then? The manga and/or games? |
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Post by SeriousJupiter on Aug 8, 2015 17:28:36 GMT -4
My criteria for a good dub are pretty much the same as many of yours. That's why I don't care much for the Pokémon XY dub because it violates so many of them. They change the music, Team Rocket's dialogue is complete gibberish, they censor out some "sensitive" words that they think kids wouldn't like (mainly words related to death) and overall I think it's all gone downhill since the early days of TPCI. 4kids obviously had many problems with their dub too (donuts, non-existent Japanese text, ridiculous paint edits) but I liked their music and Team Rocket didn't sound quite as retarded as they do today.
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Donkarasu
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Post by Donkarasu on Aug 9, 2015 17:59:44 GMT -4
The 4kids dub went downhill in the Hoenn series. The TPCI dub started of fine, then was pretty good, then slowly went downhill and now... yeah.... In Hoenn, 4kids started making Pokémon come of as more childish, made James sound more goofy and in the late episodes, edited Japanese foods. Actually both 4kids and TPCI are similar, they started of as being decent dubbers, but then in later series began to change everything for the worse. But the one thing TPCI did fully right (up until the music changes in the 17th one) is the way they dubbed Pokémon movies. Meanwhile, 4kids, well.... Yes, no changing Japanese foods to American foods or naming them as such. The biggest problem with this is it happens in children's anime. Companies like 4Kids are denying children to be able to learn more about the world and seeing foreign food in cartoons is one way to do this. Lorelei's name in the Japanese version is Kanna, the reason why 4Kids called her Prima and not Lorelei was so to match the syllables with her Japanese name. Where is she called Lorelei then? The manga and/or games? The original English name for the first Elite Four member you battle in the first generation games is Lorelei. Also there is more than one Pokémon manga. |
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Post by Ryu Taylor, Dub Lover on Aug 10, 2015 17:16:04 GMT -4
By my own criteria, I'd say my picks for the worst anime dubs would be:
3. 4Kids's dub of "One Piece", the dub that ruined their reputation as anime dubbers, even in the eyes of Japanese studios.
2. Saban's "Digimon - The Movie", in which three Japanese Digimon films, by order of FOX Kids, got puree'd into one mess of a movie. Saban handled the actual TV show better. It's a guilty pleasure of mine, something I'd say is so bad it's good. Plus, it led to a great Nostalgia Critic review.
1. New World Pictures's "Warriors of the Wind", in which about 30 minutes' worth of non-action scenes from "Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind" got cut out to turn a subtle nature film into a generic action movie. This actually nearly cost America the rest of Studio Ghibli's filmography, until Disney made a deal with the studio that they'd not alter their movies in any way except for translating the spoken dialogue, opening, and closing credits (and also the spotlight signal scene from "Ponyo").
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Donkarasu
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Post by Donkarasu on Aug 11, 2015 7:41:59 GMT -4
It's a good thing 4Kids lost the rights to One Piece when they did, they thought it was a fun pirate adventure anime. If they had dubbed further on, they would have to deal with stuff like this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6fg2-zCsaENot just that, but there is also the slavery plot. 4Kids would've never expected One Piece to get as dark as it is now. |
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Post by Die Lobsterguy on Aug 12, 2015 14:04:14 GMT -4
Didn't read most of this thread lol Stick to the script (you can change some words if you want to keep the mouth movement consistent with the words, but God help you if you change the most memorable lines), good voice actors (unfortunately some of the bigger names in voice acting have a bit of a hold on voice talent now), and do NOT touch the music. On that topic I always see people talk shit about the Gurren Lagann dub but honestly it's pretty fuckin' good. 2. Saban's "Digimon - The Movie", in which three Japanese Digimon films, by order of FOX Kids, got puree'd into one mess of a movie. Saban handled the actual TV show better. It's a guilty pleasure of mine, something I'd say is so bad it's good. Plus, it led to a great Nostalgia Critic review. I would go as far as to say every Digimon-related thing Saban has touched has been nothing short of terrible. I heard in one of the newer shows they changed the name of IceDevimon, who's been going by that name in the states since about 2002, to IceWingmon. I'm surprised they're even still in business because I haven't been aware of anything they've done up until last year. |
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Donkarasu
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Post by Donkarasu on Aug 12, 2015 16:48:15 GMT -4
Yes, the Saban dub of Digimon has always been bad. But with the newer show it has gotten worse with completely stupid edits. They edited Lillymon in Fusion to be wearing a green shirt because they thought she was naked, when that is clearly her dress:-  Oh yeah and they kept her design in Adventures, making the edit pointless. And here's the reason for all the edits in Fusion. |
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